Play, I just moved Episode 317 to Entanglement, which was tweeted earlier today, but I can't seem to edit any of the associated template pages. It's like I've been locked out of them: I click EDIT and nothing happens. Anyway, I thought I'd better give you a heads up so you know why the change is half done.
There's an associated issue I just noticed. The template for the red-and-white box is labeled perp, which is easy to use but doesn't accurately describe the use of the box. The Machine displays it to categorize individuals who are immintent threats in the moment; it doesn't use it to classify people in the same way as it does a red, yellow or white box. I've just removed the box from Megan Tilman, which never had one in the episode (I don't believe it was introduced until around 110), and changed her back to her white box. I noticed the same was done with one or two others. If you're making changes, we might want to consider a more accurate label for the red-and-white box.
The template for the red-and-white box is labeled perp, which is easy to use but doesn't accurately describe the use of the box.
Yes, I changed that too (here are some tests I forgot to include in the original post), but did you check my copy of the template? Because the Template:Person is protected. I couldn't edit that, which is why I had to create the copy.
I've just removed the box from Megan Tilman, which never had one in the episode (I don't believe it was introduced until around 110), and changed her back to her white box.
Well, those were Red boxes before my edits, so changing to WhiteRed didn't make them less accurate.
By looking at the usage, I figured the squares in these templates are to show whether the PoI of the episode is a victim or a perpetrator.
I might have been wrong about this, sorry.
I noticed as I checked a number of others that they were red, too. I wondered what was us up with that. I'm reviewing episodes now, and will check them all to be sure they're accurate -- red is worse, to be sure, so your change was a reasonable one given that. I think there is some confusion about what the boxes do, which that perp label adds to. I appreciate your drawing the situation to our attention.
Let me look at your tests again (I did earlier, but fairly cursorily) and unlock the template for you so you can make your fixes, unless Play gets there first.
The template is unlocked, feel free to do any necessary changes to fix it, this is the best part a wiki. You seem to know your way around it. I'll see if I have more time later to take a look into the issue more carefully.
I realize that you are the busiest young man on the Iberian pennisula, but I wanted to run an idea past you regarding the POI templates.
As I've been going thru the various episode pages, I've noticed that the coding of the POI template pages varies somewhat, most likely due to the original template which was later revised. It is my strong belief that these tabs should be consistent across the board.
I wanted to share with you two (2) suggestions that I thought of for your consideration.
1. That we paste the correct coding into the POI pages for the remaining POI pages of season 3, thus avoiding any future troubles. We could of course lock them up again until the ep airs.
2. That we make a plan to visually inspect each of the prior POI tabs to ensure that they all conform to the correct format as well as possess a "cleaner" dossier in a consice manner that offers a "tease" for the reader to want to learn more.
Of course, I would be happy to help you with this project in any way possible. For example, you could unlock each remaining season 3 POI tab and I could paste the correct coding and you could turn around and lock them up again until they actually air.
These are just suggestions based on observations and I don't want for you to feel obligated with everything else that you have going on.
So many of the existing dossier sections of the POI pages seem to contain a full bio of the person complete with references and links. The links make it hard to follow and I would like to suggest we do away with them except for certain exceptions. To my mind, the dossier should be more of a short "teaser" to entice the viewer to learn more and should for the most part be no more than three (3) lines long. The POI tab for the next ep is indeed unlocked, but what I would really like to do, in concert wtih you, is add the correct POI coding to every remaining season 3 POI page and then lock them up once we have everything in order. I am confiident HC would be in favour and I have been looking for LG in order to run the idea past her, but our paths have not recently crossed.
At some later date, we can revisit the POI pages for the first 11 eps of S3 and then take a look at S1 and S2 to make sure they are all consistent. Too many are inconsistent and I'm afraid if we didn't go thru them systematically, we are sure to miss one or two requiring correction.
I prefer the dossiers to be a short summary of key information about the character, not a teaser, such as was just done with the pilot. That may involve more than three lines, but three to four lines is probably a pretty good guideline. To be honest, I was planning to remove the changed dossier on the pilot POI because it doesn't tell the reader anything. I prefer simple, straightforward description.
On the other hand, I agree that a few key links are preferrable.
I think in this case less is more, we still have the articles of the POI characters, we should have more information only on those minor POIs. I vote for simple as well, otherwise we could just link the articles.
I am glad that we have reached a basic consensus on the preferred format of the Dossier section of the POI page. I believe that we can take all the time we need to create just the right dossier for each POI. I recommended a 3 line format simply as that was the level of content to which a slider bar would not be required.
I just wanted to take a second to reiterate my original concern regarding the POI template and the need for consistency. At some earlier time, there was a preliminary POI template that differs from the final version in several key aspects. What I would like to do, and what PS2 has agreed to partner with me to accomplish, is to first open up the remaining eps for S3 and insert the correct coding for each POI before locking the page again prior to broadcast. Secondly, at some later date, we can peruse the existing POI tabs to make sure that the POI coding is in the correct format and not the older version no longer being used. In this manner, at the completion of the project, the coding for each POI tab will be consistent and we will not have to worry about someone copying and pasting the older version of the code into a newly aired episode, thereby perpetuating the current problem.
1) Alonzo Quinn: I must have forgotten to add an X to his face, but I had it planned since "The Devil's Share". I'm adding it right now, and also adding "Mayor's Chief of Staff" (which is his official job).
2) Dominic Brady: Yes, I had a little of trouble with him because I think I related the name to other character (Petersen) before, I probably forgot to fix that too - already done.
3) That's a great idea, he did started working briefly as an undercover asset, and he earned it.
Thank you so much for your suggestions to update it, and also welcome to the wiki! Feel free to ask me about anything else :)
Play, while I'm catching up on our viewing party, I'm going to copy-edit each summary, break them up into Acts, the way we discussed once upon a time and place the flashbacks as they occur. You and Wilem might want to check to see that the pictures are still arranged to your satisfaction, just to be safe.
I believe most of the articles currently don't have any images, and I'm catching up and putting them where they are required as well, so I don't think you'll be having any major problems. I'll keep an eye on the changes to see what's happening.
I'm seeing it and like what I'm seeing. I've been able to keep up by following you around as I see your edits. I ran into my first problem just to day with the pic of the machine in the Act II FB in Ghosts. For the life of me I can't get the pic of the machine to behave. It flies all over the page no matter what I try and I'm ready to send up an emergency flair for assistance.
I know I've said it before, but no one captures the scene in a shot better than Play! Well done, sir!
And you know what you're doing with those pictures. I just make a mess of them if we get any fancier that right, left or center. I'll lock up the summary while I'm editing, then as soon as it's unlocked, any changes you and Play want to make is great.
Spreading those flashbacks out so they sit where they actually occured helps the flow of the summary, but it doesn't half play havoc with the pictures. I'm sure Play can answer the flare.
Yes, I'm confident that Play will come and clean up my mistakes again. But one of these times his driving instructor is going to refuse my bribes and once he gets his license we'll never see him again....unless he's asking for directions.
I think I know what problem you're talking about, the template is a bit tricky, images show above or below where you don't want them. What I just did is reduce the size a bit so that it's inside, is that what you're wanting to do?
I think the format is a nice alteration. It adds a pause or a dramatic "breathe" that I feel enhances the summary.
One other thing I've noticed recently, is that the brief synopsis on the main page of each ep has become excessively bloated with links that makes reading it a challenge. Since you began your project and I revisited the first few ep pages, I realized that it's a problem that's been escalating over the years. For example, the synopsis for "Ghosts " has 5 words highlighted in blue for links, while the latest ep "Lethe " has 18. Just an observatiom I wanted to share since we're discussing housekeeping.
I don't know how I feel about some of the brief synopses we use. We take them exactly as they're published in the press releases, however if you look at "Lethe", for example, it says "the crime organization, HR."
While I understand this in a press release point of view, perhaps this being a POI website should be more simple. We don't need to explain that HR is a crime organization as if it's something new, right?
I so agree about the overlinking of the synopses. I'm never a fan of excessive linking, and the numbers to interrupt the flow, as well as add spoilers at times (not a big worry, but on the table nonetheless.) As for the synopses themselves, I know Obi and Claire post the ones from CBS, some of which are, I must say, diabolically badly written. I finally had to edit a recent one, it contained such an awful error.
More problematically: press releases are designed to pique the viewer's interest. As a result, they focus on sensational bits of the episode, but don't necessarily accurately sum them up. Consequently, I think the CBS synopses, sans any but key links, are fine before the episode runs. Afterward, they can and should be revised to better capture the actual episode, again with key, but not excessive, links.
I have nothing to add to that, except that I agree. Less links, good information. Plus, the POI is normally described in a full sentence and linking that full sentence is not aesthetically pleasing. The POI is in the infobox already.
Play, I just set up tabs for the extended version of the pilot, anticipating our pending viewing party, including the L template and Ep template, but still can't get the doggone red links off the overview page's tabs. The articles are created, I can link among them, but once I get back to the overview page, it doesn't link. It's maddening. Would you have a look, and let me know what I've done wrong? I've checked other articles, and can't see what the problem is! Thank you!!
Since your knowledge and talent in crafting visual templates surpasses mine, I was wondering if you could come up with an elaborate-looking (yet easily used) templates for the Episodes Portal, as well as the Main/Recurring Characters portal.
I envisioned the characters portal boxes having a blue square for living characters, yellow for unknown status, and red for dead. As for the episodes portal, I thought perhaps a Machine-like template with the option of altering the borders to differentiate the episodes according to season.
I was already working for a Main/Recurring Characters one, but wasn't thinking about the squares that way. I was considering that maybe we can just use the squares like they use them in the show (in a corner) because the status of the characters will be written above, this way it's similar to the machine.
Plus, I think it's cool to stay true to the opening scene for example, when writing "Unknown" "Presumed Dead" "Missing" and all of that.
About the character portal, that sounds ok, though I'm not sure if I get the borders idea. Do you mean making them colourful?
I added the title for 313 (4C) and now nothing links properly. I tried to fix it but just made it worse. I have no idea what I did wrong, but I sure did something. Would you mind taking a peek and tell me what I did so I can fix it?
Another favor? Would you change the picture for The Crossing's infobox? If I do, it will have a CityTV bug on it, and we don't want that. That kiss picture is not attractive in and of itself, but it's also not what the episode is about. Thank you!!
HC suggested either the subway or the precinct because those are the places in which they "cross" paths, hence the name of the episode, I think it looks ok. I wanted Quinn on it but the name of the producers show up and I can't get a good pic.
I think the title referred more to crossing lines than to crossing paths, hence I thought the kiss was the most appropriate picture. It's already being referred to as the most provocative scene in American TV this season. 2 people standing alone in a subway car only stirs HC's passions as she only wishes she could have the carraige all to herself!
I realize that. Nevertheless, I thought you should be aware it was something we discussed while you were away rather than me circumventing the discussion process. The picture should certainly go in the article, however.
DISCLAIMER: This message is intended solely for Play2.
I was chatting with HC and we were commenting about how often Maxine Angelis' paper, the "New York Journal" has been used in a number of episodes.
This led me to the idea of creating a page to collect the NYJ stories, but with my rudimentary coding skills it would look like a child's school project.
Would it be possible to build a template that looked a little like a newspaper? It would just be one page that basically never ended. The stories themselves could be displayed inside templates where pics could be included and we could use advertisements for in show businesses to give it authenticity.
The thing is that the template would have to be designed in such a way so as to allow for addtional stories to be added as the paper was referenced in the show.
This is a VERY rough draft I slapped together in 4 minutes to give you an idea.
You can construct it in Word, then convert it to a .pdf, then to a .jpg file using Acrobat or similar (my version of Word won't change directly to .jpg, but that might be possible in the Windows version.) Word already has newspaper-style templates, and you can control you font and formatting. I do that at work for postings on Facebook all the time, and it works nicely.
I toyed momentarily with the idea of starting the stories perhaps with the 911 attacks or Diane Hansen's arrest. But Now I'm pretty convinced that the articles should stick to only those that appear in episodes or are mentioned as being in the Journal. Otherwise, the "front page" will be a mile long and I think the concept that makes it so appealling will be dilutted, not to mention the amount of added work. I want to run the concept past Claire when she wakes up in a few hours and I will let you know what she thinks. Also, I don't want to run into the problem I had with the fake Friendczar page i created as some minor POI's image and people started adding it as fact to his bio.
On another topic, the ads for the various in world corporatlons and services are a hoot, not to mention the occassional "lost dog" poster (who knew Byron was such a cry baby for losing Butcher?"
I would very much like to have some fun with this, but if we get too much push back, I'll just scrap it to the "archives".
I like the idea of collecting Maxine Angelis' articles and putting them in a New York Journal newspaper template, but for the sake of authenticity or show canon, and because we're a wiki (and not a picture book or tumblr account) I would like to ask you to stick to what's really in the episodes. There are some really good close ups of her articles (and others, btw. a reporter named "Mark Cyr" makes several appearances in the first season) and we could definitely use them instead of making our own articles. That includes self made advertisements for products or brand names (unless an ad appears in an episode (like the bank ad in the bus in 2x13). Give them a little(!) colour enhancement before we post them but no other modifications.
Please keep in mind that the purpose of the wiki is to collect all sorts of information based on the episodes. It does not include making fan art or altering screencaps so that they look like something else. As you mentioned above, people refer to our articles and well made fan art will cause nothing but confusion.
Strictly speaking, the wiki is a fan art free zone (and I would like to keep it that way). Let's collect what we have first and then see how we can add it into a template.
I'm afraid I have to agree. The line between us and more traditional fansites starts getting blurred when this kind of material comes in. It's a clever idea, which is why I offered a suggestion, but it might better be suited to somewhere like Tumblr. I worry, too, that content and images from the show are copyrighted, and when we manipulate them too much, we might open the wiki up to unanticipated consequences.
I wish that just once it would be possible for two people to have a private discussion about a potential project without being deluged with unsolicited comments and uninformed advice, no matter if it be good intentioned or not. I specifically began this message thread with the words "This is intended solely for Play2" because he and I had discussed the matter at length in chat and wanted to take a look at moving such a project further. We did this so that we could have fun with this project and freely express ideas and scenarios, from which we hoped to be able to create something unique and informative. The mere fact that our private discussion contained so called "fan art" does in no way imply that these images would appear in the final product, but rather they were just proof of concept examples that made us laugh and inspired us with ideas for other ads that would have been more appropriate. These fake ads brought laughter and levity to others on the wiki, something that has been sorely missing as of late, but they also served a practical purpose as they allowed us to begin the process of recreating the company logos from the show so that they might possibly be used in our project. While the NY Journal makes an appearance quite regularly in the show, rarely is the full text of the article visible and the ads could have served as a convenient way to break from the partial story. Concerns about fan art and copyright are simply not applicable here as we had yet to even put anything together and people should be allowed the opportunity to discuss things and share ideas without others making assumptions and introducing negativity where it is neither needed nor welcomed.
As a geneal courtesy, I would have apprecited the opportunity to have worked on this project with Play until we had a working prototype available that could be submitted for comment. Sadly, I correctly predicted to Play that there would be a negative response to our idea and hence I no longer have the desire to pursue it.
I think someone on the show took our idea and ran with it! And it's bloody brilliant! The ad at the bottom is from the adverts they showed in the subway car during the "Crossing" and excactly like what we were talking about doing! Who knew we were trailblazers!
It was EXACTLY what you and I had discussed and I can't help thinking someone from the show stole our idea, but perhaps that's just my wishful thinking! The wiretapping story was interesting but your are right, the flavoured whiskey story is just like something I would have done!
What's wrong with the current picture? Didn't we say once that the main cast pics should be promo pics for each character and not a screenshot from an episode? I don't like any of the above ones because they are either too dark, or only show a part of her face, or when she's using an alias identity. I vote for keeping the current picture.
What's wrong, run out of Fruit Loops this morning? We were just kicking around the idea since we both weren't totally in love with the current pic of Ms. Root, or how she will heretofore be referred to as, Mrs. Play. :P
I'm afraid I have to agree with Claire. The one we have is more than adequate, and there's no advantage in any of the new ones. But here's my big concern: we just had an edit war with TJ over his desire to change the photo. Even after a block, he kept pressing the issue until I told him we were not going to change the picture (based on our discussion at that time.) For us to turn around now and change it for what appears to be an arbitrary reason will appear unfair, and cause more trouble than it will solve.
JosephHawk wrote: Wilem7, I would like to point out that the community must agree to such a change; you must propose this change via blog or forums until we get a better system of changing profile pics.
Not necessarily. That's a restriction placed on TJ in response to his edit warring and constant arbitrary picture changes. I see no reason to place Wilem7, who has been highly collaborative in his approach to pictures, under such a restriction, nor did I agree to it.
What isn't appropriate is for one admin to attempt to single-handedly set policy without at least discussing it with the rest of us.
That's a separate discussion, which we can have in the chat room. The operative word being WE. Unilateral setting of policy is not acceptable; this needs to be collaborative, and agreed to by the whole cadre of admins.
We're having a perfectly collaborative discussion here. There's no reason to over-complicate the situation.
This idea for a new pic was not intended for the character's profile page but rather for the special project that Play was working on prior to sharing it with others for opinons. Neither of us cared for any of the pics we found and hence no recommendation was made to change anything. It was just a what-if scenario and no changes were made. Also, the list of possibilites was be no means exclusive as we had just started looking. The search did begin with promo pics but there are not many available for Ms. Shaw.
It's a little unfair to compare our process to that of TJ as firstly no changes were made, secondly we did begin a dialogue to even think about it and lastly, the proposed changes were for a project still in development at the time and were in discussion on Play's wall not a general forum. But if blame needs to be assigned, please direct it solely towards me as the idea was mine and I worked on it while Play was busy working on the related template.
Wilem7 wrote: This idea for a new pic was not intended for the character's profile page but rather for the special project that Play was working on prior to sharing it with others for opinons. (...)
...and lastly, the proposed changes were for a project still in development at the time (...)
Sorry but "image", "change", and "vote" in the same discussion trigger the Clairemachine to take a closer look so that it can send an alarm in time.
For the sake of clarity and avoiding false alarms I suggest to leave a few more hints out there for the rest of us, and not discuss something suspiciously similar to a recent dispute when it's actually about something else.... and only disclose the true purpose after half a dozen comments that eventually have nothing to do with whatever you and Rootboy are planning. Instead of asking about missing Froot Loops you could have mentioned what these pictures are for right in that comment. Would have saved us the misunderstanding.
JosephHawk wrote: However, why have many different message wall discussions when we can have just one page solely dedicated to this topic? Do you disagree with the fact that the proposed way is more effecient?
I do disagree, yes.
And I'm glad we're all cleared up on what the intention of this discussion was. For my part, I have to agree with Claire; it wasn't clear what you two were up to, as innocent as it was.
I apologize unreservedly for any confusion or angst that my comments may have caused you, or anyone else for that matter. I am a huge proponent of the collaborative process and certainly do not enjoy the role of the badboy outlaw (although I have been told more than once that I look remarkably good in bottom-less pleather chaps).
Ah...I see you guys have been talking about me...implying me as a badboy outlaw and such. I agree with you guys that it's best to have a collaborative way of introducing ideas to the wiki, especially after my actions resulting in my painfully frustrating three-day block. I think the new pictures of Shaw look MUCH better than the one we have now and I'd agree with almost all of them. The ones where she's walking with a gun look like obvious screenshots but the one that Play cited, as well as the right-side one on Play's initial post both look awesome. I understand this is currently part of Play's little project, and I'm looking forward to seeing where that goes. I'd like to thank W7 for his amazing pictures for the Cast and Crew pages as well. And HC? Speaking of a promo image, our current one is also a screenshot from "Reasonable Doubt". Just because ObiDan put it there doesn't mean it's promotional, whether he's the founder or not (with all due respect to you, Obi. :D ). Or, does it according to you guys' little wiki-exclusiv rules? Other than that, I promise not to screw around with images or change them without a community authorization. I have a lot of work to do on HR and Endgame, so I'll continue on that while your wonderful community projects continue. Thanks,