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  • Hey guys!

    LG seems to have surprisingly not created this so I'll take up the task. Well, let's talk about POI's Christmas present to the fans: one more episode in the winter hiatus! Let's go!

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    • TJ, thanks for the back-up.  My grades are due today, and I've been buried, so I just came on to do it.  

      This one should be good.  I'm looking forward to what I believe is our first two-part POI story.  And Camryn Manheim.  AND SAUL RUBENIK.  This will be major.

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    • LeverageGuru wrote:
      TJ, thanks for the back-up.  My grades are due today, and I've been buried, so I just came on to do it.  

      This one should be good.  I'm looking forward to what I believe is our first two-part POI story.  And Camryn Manheim.  AND SAUL RUBENIK.  This will be major.


      No problem. Though I was used to seeing your icon next to the thread title :D BTW How do you highlight posts so everyone can see it?

      Also, this is most certainly not the first two-part episode group (Prisoner's Dilemma and Dead Reckoning) but I think it is the first two-part standalone.

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    • You highlight via the dropdown menu in the lower right corner of the opening message window.  It may be an admin function.  I just highlighted this thread. 

      PB and DR didn't have the same POI.  This is the first one, by my reckoning, that has the same POI for both parts of a two-parter.  

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    • HOLY CRAP! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM OVERWHELMED BY BOTH THIS EPISODE AND THE TRUCKLOAD OF WORK TO DO ON THE WIKI! THIS EPISODE WAS MIND-BLOWING! A MIND-BLOWING MASS OF WIKI TO-DO's AND NEW PAGES! AND A MASTERPIECE!

      Calming down... we can now just jump to the most important point: CONTROL IS REVEALED. MEET DIANE CLAYPOOL, OTHERWISE KNOWN AS CONTROL. DAMN. Camryn Manheim from The Practice gets the crown of CONTROL. MY GOD. I saw Boris McGiver in the opening credits but had no idea where he was the whole time. MACHINE STORYLINE, HIT THE ACCELERATOR. We are gonna go on a huge ride of adrenaline from here.

      Flashbacks. BRILLIANT! That kid who played Finch looked JUST like a young Harold! And the dialogue and writing were amazing. I really liked how they got that 1970's feel to the whole place, with old-style houses and the typical attire worn by the dudes back then. The lighting was more modern-esque, giving it a nice contrast and really adding to it. Great job, POI!

      REESE. Out in COLORADO? WHAT??? Well, Reese was back to his hobo-ish ways from the Pilot and the only thing that's different is that he's at least dressed well. Fusco met with him at the bar and they had a very well-written, manly conversation/argument that turned into a fight. After seeing the promo, I was expecting this fight to be all emotional and stuff, but no. It was like two children mad at each other, fighting it out (in the rain, I guess) until their parents or teachers (or police, in this case) come and tell them to break it up. The episode left us there, and that's an obvious step into plot development. Fusco'll probably get released, but wait till the Colorado police find out that the other guy they're holding is New York's greatest urban legend. I guess in Colorado he'll be known as the "Man in the Jacket" or something. Anyways, the fight was set in heavy rain, and old-style bar music playing in the background (from the bar, so technically no music) and that juxtaposition made the whole thing seem rather comical. I still enjoy POI's fight choreography, and I definetely liked the whole thing.

      THE POI. Arthur Claypool was a dude with a brain tumor, so he randomly forgot things. Not to mention he was also Finch's MIT classmate. Arthur was played by Warehouse 13's Saul Rubinek, who did a fantastic job in this episode. His interactions with Finch were great and I certainly do hope that he makes it out alive by "Aletheia", which we now have to wait until JANUARY 2014.

      FINCH. He obviously deserves a section, because "Lethe" was all about him! Episodes with Finch flashbacks always offer some insight into his character, and also give us some fantastic acting by Michael Emerson. Flashbacks and present-day - Finch was great all around. His dialogue was amazing and as I said before - I thoroughly enjoyed his interactions with Arthur. Of course, we can't forget Finch and Arthur's singing of the MIT song - I LOVED that! It could be interpreted in many ways, one being irony and unusuality (is that a word?) serving as comic relief, but we've never seen Finch sing, so the idea was what was quite funny. In the end, however, Finch isn't that bad a singer. :)

      SHAW. Best use of Shaw period. Reese and Finch have been a POI team for quite a long time, but the reason why I LOVED Shaw in this episode as Reese's temporary replacement was how subtle and nuanced she was. Big high-five to Sarah Shahi for some wonderful acting as Shaw. Even though she has that whole disorder thing going on, we got to see Shaw use her skills as a doctor (as we saw in flashbacks from "The Devil's Share") and apply them to acting of her own. I really liked Shaw's little hospital adventure here because of how intriguing and refreshing it was to watch.

      As for the story, I enjoyed it very much. It wasn't over-the-top complex, and little details as well as HUGE ones (and HUGE truckloads as wiki-work as mentioned before) made it a riveting adventure. Vigilance was in it, sure, but their whole role in the story wasn't too relevant to the overall plot, because they just chased Arthur around in the hospital and took a couple bullets from Shaw. Collier was there too, but the intensity of his presence wasn't as strong as his prior appearances. He barely even said anything either, but the writers merely confimed his gunfight skills, which are fairly solid considering how it was Shaw he was up against.

      All in all, "Lethe" was another masterpiece. The #1 message here is that CONTROL is BACK, and I'm waiting to see where her story is going from here. Erik Mountain, you have once again proven your worth with yet another phenomenal episode, and Richard J. Lewis has once again directed an "important" episode, and important is more of an understatement here judging from what we learned. Anyways, guys, thanks for reading!

      - TJ

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    • Best episode in a while. I really hope they keep it up!

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    • I knew it!!! I always thought to myself how strange it was that other organizations like Decima didn't just build there own machine, but just dismissed it as if it simply couldn't be repeated, that what Harold did was a once in a lifetime thing. Now I am nearly certain that Decima is Samaritan.

      Love how The Machine keeps track of all the old programs and especially the end where it went and turned Samaritan from "Deactivated" to "Unknown". Also, apparently there are cracks in this system just by the comments Claypool spoke, so perhaps Decima simply took it over or they are it trying to defend itself. It does kind of interest and make me wonder how our machine did not know of its existance. It must be very well hidden. Oh, btw, as soon as they said 2005, how many thought to yourself "Because that's when /she/ came online!" Oh, also, anybody else notice how Finch's car was kinda sorta bullet proof? Not saying that's a negative for sure, and it would be just like Finch to be 'well-prepared'. I loved it!

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    • I might agree with that Decima is Samaritan but still speculation still exists that Samaritan is a program and Decima is an Organization. Next, Control, that sly woman.... I knew from the start of the show that this woman can't be trusted. Vigilance also was in shock when someone intervene again but not just 1 team but 3. (Secret Service which was neutralized by Control; Team PoI (Finch and Shaw), and Control itself.) Predicting a 70% chance of systems clash between Finch's Machine and Samaritan. What will Root do to defend Finch's Machine. As for Reese, do whatever he like.

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    • TJlive800 wrote: In the end, however, Finch isn't that bad a singer. :)

      I would be surprised if a bird like a Finch was a bad singer. :) Wonderful episode. I might need a minute to collect all pieces of my mind after it was blown. Control!

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    • Oh man.... a 2nd machine. What if this Samaritan becomes the evil A.I?? Lol. And I knew I couldn't trust that "wife" woman, there seemed to be something off about her. She was calm when she saw Shaw with the gun, and didn't ask questions or freak out much, and while everyone was escaping she was quiet. Not a good sign. I just had no idea that she was "Control." Oh snap!!! 

      I hate how Root keeps calling the machine a "she." I've always considered it a "he" because of its alias Ernest Thornhill. Lol. I wonder if the Samaritan and the Machine will have a battle to be on top. Oh man.... what if Samaritan gets taken by Decima and is used for war, and 'Team Machine' will have to stop them! Oh man... things just got a whole lot better! 

      Really concerned about Fusco and Reese though. Hope this doesn't get Fusco fired. Maybe the fight woke Reese up. After all Shaw and Finch are in serious danger. Reese SAVE THEM!!! Please. 

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    • TJ!  However much caffeine you've had, cut it in half.  You're going to stroke ou!

      Holy shit.  I figured after the roller coast ride of the sweeps episodes it couldn't get any wilder.  Wrong, grasshopper.  I'm exhausted.  

      Let me run this one by us all:  Decima (the Fate who controls the threads of life) is the unit that shuts down the various projects.  That would explain why they were so determined to gain Admin status: to shut the Machine down, or to gain unilateral control of it.  I can't quite make it all work yet -- it depends on what  Control actually knows about the extent of the Machine.

      Now I see the function of Shaw at last.  There had to be more there than met the eye.  She's their conduit into the other side. 

      Camryn Manheim.  Nice.  They played against type (v. someone like Kate Mulgrew or Jayne Atkinson, who would be the standard stereotype of the kind of woman who'd be in charge of a unit like that.)  They did a great job of getting her cast without blowing the surprise.  I'm not sure who's better at pulling surprises on us these days:  POI or Doctor Who.  Between them, I'm going to need either a steady stream of Proazac or a therapist on speed dial.  

      So, when did we twig she was Control?  Somewhere along the line, I'm not sure just where, but while they were still at the hospital, something started to make me suspect something was up because no one seemed to be who they pretended to be.  I think it was the Chinese food being spiked that started me wondering.  I didn't give it too much more thought until Claypool's line wondering why he coun't remember her when he remembered everything else; I heard myself say out loud, "She's Control" just as she summoned the troops.  

      Just what I needed after a really, really hard day.  

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    • Wonderful episode. Even after such an epic 3-episode arc POI doesn't let up the intensity.

      This time also episode 11 puts Reese in the background and focuses on Finch. I loved the Finch flashbacks. Young Finch was so cute and I was glad that his dad turned out to be a normal guy and that they had such a sweet relationship.

      I really liked Saul Rubinek as Arthur. The scene where Arthur and Finch sing together was priceless and I loved Shaw's reaction after it. Speaking of Shaw she was on fire this episode.

      Camryn Manheim was great and such a good fit for Control. I had a feeling throughout the episode that she wasn't who she seemed but the reveal was still great. Nice to get a glimpse of Hersh and Collier as well.

      I always thought that there might be other versions of the Machine ever since Matsya Nyaya and it was nice to see that being the case. I wonder what will happen to Samaritan, will It fall into the wrong hands like Decima and would the machine have to "fight" it. And how was Root still communicating with the Machine?

      Reese and Fusco had a couple of nice scenes together which also gave us a little history on Reese. I enjoyed the fight scene and even though it seemed Reese always had the upper hand I was surprised to see Fusco holding his own against him.

      Also major LOL at POI openly caling out PRISM as inferior and a decoy.

      And now we wait...

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    • I loved the little PRISM conceit;  they've had a good laugh or two out of how prescient the Machine has turned out to be.  

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    • Delightful episode, ever since they announced Camryn Manheim I thought she could be Control, though I had my doubts because it was well hidden. But as I was watching the episode, I was just thinking about all the woman who appeared and waiting to see Control because I knew she was bound to appear in the last episode of the year :P

      I hope she sticks around a lot and not only during these episodes. Now, cliffhanger until Jan 7th... but we have plenty of work to do.

      I'm worried about Shaw because the prediction to her death is pretty high. I highly doubt that she'll be killed and I like to think that it's because she's being threatened by two men, and that's two times Finch's percentage or Claypool's. I'm thinking maybe Reese will just save everyone but they sent him so far away. (The fight was such a fine moment)

      What a great POI, by the way, and great way to do the reveal, Claypool was right all along. It was very clever, and I can see the reason for naming it "Lethe" now.

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    • 99.74.222.22 wrote:
      Oh man.... a 2nd machine. What if this Samaritan becomes the evil A.I?? Lol. And I knew I couldn't trust that "wife" woman, there seemed to be something off about her. She was calm when she saw Shaw with the gun, and didn't ask questions or freak out much, and while everyone was escaping she was quiet. Not a good sign. I just had no idea that she was "Control." Oh snap!!! 

      I hate how Root keeps calling the machine a "she." I've always considered it a "he" because of its alias Ernest Thornhill. Lol. I wonder if the Samaritan and the Machine will have a battle to be on top. Oh man.... what if Samaritan gets taken by Decima and is used for war, and 'Team Machine' will have to stop them! Oh man... things just got a whole lot better! 

      Really concerned about Fusco and Reese though. Hope this doesn't get Fusco fired. Maybe the fight woke Reese up. After all Shaw and Finch are in serious danger. Reese SAVE THEM!!! Please. 

      It seems like a page was taken from "Collosus: Forbin Project"  Where there was "Colosus" and "Gardian" (U.S. and U.S.S.R).  My guess Colosus (The Machine) has "detected" Samaritan (from the beginining of the Series) and have taken steps for prepration of this eventuality.  Both systems are in similar design, and functionality.  If it still taken from the movie, my guess would be both will join forces to comply with their function, and purpose.

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    • Control: Why don't we make a deal, I pay 1 billion for each people for just letting us go. -Finch

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    • Wow! All this talk about Samaritan and the second Machine... I didn't even consider it in my lengthy review! (To LG: it would take a lot of caffeine but for me it was mere excitement) Well, I see that the wiki has a page on that now, and we all know that Helloclaire is going to demonstrate her expertise in techno-babble on it, making the wiki look more professional than ever (Jonathan Nolan should read the technology-related articles. He'll be scratching his head at how detailed they are; trust me, I was taken aback :)) Well, after reading all these other responses, I just realized how small one big detail is compared to the big fight. This is definetely the thing Root was telling Finch about. Well, Bear has warmed up to her apparently, and I HOPE he knows how to pick a lock because Root is right now their last hope. Carter is dead :( and if she wasn't then she could've helped because she anyways found out about the Machine. Reese is off in Colorado, busted with Fusco by the police there for fighting like little children out in the rain. Shaw, who is usually backup, is screwed along with Finch and Arthur. We now only have Root, who's probably gonna help because her hopes of her and Finch "being together for the big fight" just got crushed by Control.

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    • This episode almost made my brain explode. The question is: Is the threat root was alluding to, the activation of samaritan or the possible hijacking of samaritan by control?

      It seemed from the last seconds of the episode that  there will be an operational conflict if samaritan were to go online. How would that manifest itself in the world?

      So many questions and now we have to wait another 3 weeks. Its too much. This freaking show just cant stop and when its hitting on all cylinders it is hard to catch your breath.  

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    • I love how this episode unfolded.  It did not take me but a second to see that the POI was Victor Dubenich from the Leverage series.  I thought about LG when i first saw the picture of him on Finch's computer screen.  Awesome, just awesome.  Come on January 7th...

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    • TheoriesLeverageGuru wrote:
      TJ!  However much caffeine you've had, cut it in half.  You're going to stroke ou!

      Holy shit.  I figured after the roller coast ride of the sweeps episodes it couldn't get any wilder.  Wrong, grasshopper.  I'm exhausted.  

      Let me run this one by us all:  Decima (the Fate who controls the threads of life) is the unit that shuts down the various projects.  That would explain why they were so determined to gain Admin status: to shut the Machine down, or to gain unilateral control of it.  I can't quite make it all work yet -- it depends on what  Control actually knows about the extent of the Machine.

      "Wrong, grasshopper" Ha, ha!!! I love that. 8D Also, if that's just you excited TJ then I think we've found our secret weapon. If ever the wiki comes under attack verbally then we'll just have you drink a ton of cafinated coffee and set you loose upon them. No person can withstand our might now! We'll worry about world domination later and just focus on defense... for now.

      You know, LG, I read that second paragraph and the funniest thing struck my mind. I have absolutely no idea where it came from or why, but it just sort of hit me. It's the craziest thing, but I was just thinking that the idea could possibly deserve a Theories post! *gives begging smile* What do you think?

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    • I think whatever Root is referring to, we just saw the start of it.  We also have to think about the meaning of Samaritan, and what that might tell us about that project. Those titles are always explanatory; most are simply plain wrap (like the Machine), but this one's more complex, and unlike Northern Lights, appears to have some meaning.  

      Three weeks will go by fast.  Too fast!

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    • CsPPP wrote:
      You know, LG, I read that second paragraph and the funniest thing struck my mind. I have absolutely no idea where it came from or why, but it just sort of hit me. It's the craziest thing, but I was just thinking that the idea could possibly deserve a Theories post! *gives begging smile* What do you think?

      I say go for it!

      Ghostwriter1924 wrote:
      It did not take me but a second to see that the POI was Victor Dubenich from the Leverage series.  I thought about LG when i first saw the picture of him on Finch's computer screen. 


      That's why Leverage in my user name! Victor Dubenich was the best baddie. Now we need to get Timothy Hutton on POI. He could play the President!

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    • Oh, well, I was thinking that perhaps you might write up a theories post? I would hate to just keep dominating that thread with all my wacky ideas. *gives begging eyes with smile this time*

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    • CsPPP wrote:
      Oh, well, I was thinking that perhaps you might write up a theories post? I would hate to just keep dominating that thread with all my wacky ideas. *gives begging eyes with smile this time*

      Well I think you're just saying that because you're afraid your computer will crash when you press the "publish" button due to the length of your theory

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    • CsPPP, please, you do it.  It's your baby and I couldn't approach doing it the justice you could.  Let's try this:  I'll give you some facts/details I see as at issue.  Then you take it from there.  How about a collaboration?

      Here's what bugs me:

      • Is Claypool's tumor legitimate? I don't recall us seeing an x-ray, just a diagnosis. Even if we did, x-rays can be faked easily.
      • How long has Vigilance been after him, and how actively have they been trying to extract information before now?
      • What does Control want from Arthur? It's not just to keep him silent. There has to be more. Related, how long has she been playing his "wife?" Presumably not too long.
      • What is Control's agenda, how much does she know about Finch, and how much does she know about the development of the Machine?
      • More importantly, how much does she know about the team, and about Finch's back door?
      • What is the significance of the project name Samaritan?

      Now, CsPPP, if you can't make something of that, you're not the Oliver Stone class theorizer I think you are!  ;-)

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    • I'm confused. Why is control, which falls under ISA, a US government agency, trying to go after this NSA guy protected by SS. What's with all this infighting between agencies, it all seems a it counter-productive. Do they not get numbers from the machine anymore as Finch does? 

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    • 65.34.212.57 wrote:
      I'm confused. Why is control, which falls under ISA, a US government agency, trying to go after this NSA guy protected by SS. What's with all this infighting between agencies, it all seems a it counter-productive. Do they not get numbers from the machine anymore as Finch does? 

      To answer your question.  One word "POWER"  Both machines (combined) gives ultimate power.  My guess is that "Control" wants to have ultimate power.  It is not uncommon to have different agences working separatly to have ulteriur motives, and goals.  The machine still gives "relavent" numbers, but to have two machines, now that's power.

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    • One plot hole in the episode is that goverment employees with top secret clearances are not treated for any maladies in a normal hospital. Walter Reed has an entire high security wing built when former CIA chief William Casey became a frequent visitor allowing him to stay close to the capital. In almost every state, there is a VA hospital with a security wing that serves the same purpose. The CIA has their own fully equipped hospital, long term rehab and even a hospice and I can imagine that other security agencies do the same. 

      The other plot hole was that the Secret Service would not be used to protect someone with such high level clearance, especially as Shaw points out, non-field agents. 

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    • Wilem7 wrote:
      One plot hole in the episode is that goverment employees with top secret clearances are not treated for any maladies in a normal hospital. Walter Reed has an entire high security wing built when former CIA chief William Casey became a frequent visitor allowing him to stay close to the capital. In almost every state, there is a VA hospital with a security wing that serves the same purpose. The CIA has their own fully equipped hospital, long term rehab and even a hospice and I can imagine that other security agencies do the same. 

      The other plot hole was that the Secret Service would not be used to protect someone with such high level clearance, especially as Shaw points out, non-field agents. 

      My guess.  It is not a plot hole if the wants to keep in "off the books"

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    • Can you imagine "kid" Harold writing to Santa Claus (after the exposure of the internet)?  He may write something like this,


      Dear Santa,

      My name is Harold "Wren".  I have been good all year.  I have helped my father with his condition.  WhatI want for Christmas is a machine that thinks (an AI), to help my father.  Please send me the following items (to build one) so that I could have a Merry Christmas with my father.

      [Listing 5 miles long]

      P.S., If you check your computer system of the "Nice" list, you can confirm that "Harold Wren" is on that list.



      Again, an interesting thought given the holidays.


      What do you think of Harold "hacking" Santa's list?

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    • The last we saw Hersh, Harold was standing over him at the insane asylum after Root escaped. Maybe Harold saved him from his wounds and now he is working for Harold and the team. That would explain the yellow box around Hersh at the end of this episode

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    • Hersh received the yellow box after kiling Special Counsel on the orders of Control and then moving higher into the organization, gaining knowledge of the existence of the machine in the process. 

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    • The way, Harold's father talks (and how they setup the scenes in hte flashbacks) is closely similar to "Superman" and "Spiderman".  Teenage Harold looks like (a little) like Clark Kent (in someways), and how his father told him that he had greatness inside, etc.  In addtion, how he cautions him on the actions that may have consequences if done foolishly (Uncle Ben, Spiderman).


      Do you think the flashbacks are like that maner?

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    • Athe end of the scene where the Machine is generating probable preditions, It shows "Retasking Analog Interface" (below "Death: Admin 43.51%) it will "retask" Root.  Root will come in and save everyone at the last second in the first scene of the next episode.  This is my guess.


      • Please note, it is not a spoiler.  If you take a closer look at the last frew frames before it shows sameritian, it does show retasking analog interface, which (strongly) suggests Root will arrive to save Admin, Shaw, Arthur.
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    • POI 0311 Graph2

      74.63.42.169 wrote:
      Athe end of the scene where the Machine is generating probable preditions, It shows "Retasking Analog Interface" (below "Death: Admin 43.51%) it will "retask" Root.  Root will come in and save everyone at the last second in the first scene of the next episode.  This is my guess.
      • Please note, it is not a spoiler.  If you take a closer look at the last frew frames before it shows sameritian, it does show retasking analog interface, which (strongly) suggests Root will arrive to save Admin, Shaw, Arthur.

      Note: Image resized to fit window, swapped for high res image. Click on the image for a larger version. -- LG (Admin.)

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    • Personally I believe that Samaritan is working with Vigilance--how else could they pull off so much of what they have done? I think the Decima storyline was pretty well concluded when it was explained that in fact it was Finch who had set Decima free, or in motion if your prefer.

      I concur that "tasking analog interface" is the Machine sending Root to save the day, though I am curious as to how exactly she is communicating with the Machine.

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    • About on that "Retasking Analog Interface", Curious enough that in this episode: 

      First, is how can Root still communicate with the Machine inside the cage that Finch built specifically that blocks all wireless communications? Unless, Root installed a wired connection inside the Finch's cage. (When Root gives Finch the new Number (POI)).

      Second, Majority of the retasking instruction is to save Finch, but still need Reese help to intervene the current situation (Last Part).

      Lastly, I hope that Nathan Ingram "Contingency Function" has a bigger role in future date. 

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    • 108.45.108.28 wrote:
      Personally I believe that Samaritan is working with Vigilance--how else could they pull off so much of what they have done? I think the Decima storyline was pretty well concluded when it was explained that in fact it was Finch who had set Decima free, or in motion if your prefer.

      I concur that "tasking analog interface" is the Machine sending Root to save the day, though I am curious as to how exactly she is communicating with the Machine.

      Try the window.  If you see in past episodes, you see Root loking out the window.  The machine could easily control electronic objects that can be used as a means of communication.

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    • I love this episode!

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    • 108.45.108.28 wrote:

      I concur that "tasking analog interface" is the Machine sending Root to save the day, though I am curious as to how exactly she is communicating with the Machine.

      My opinion is that when Finch and Root came back to the library, the show never shows or speaks of Finch taking her phone from her when she gets locked into the library again.  How else would she have gotten the new number without a way to communicate?  Just my thoughts...

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    • It's 7:30 AM here and SNOWING OUTSIDE!! Yay!

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    • LeverageGuru
      LeverageGuru removed this reply because:
      Let's keep the thread on topic. The summary linked here is already on the episode page.
      06:39, December 21, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • I have a theory about the communication of Root and the machine.  Looking out the window my be one of them, but I theorize that its more simple than that.  The area where root is staying is close to the area where Finch's computer system is setup.  When the machine sees that Finch leaves the library it communicates through the speakers and mic of his computer down the hall.  It may be a one way communication if the mic couldn't hear her from that distance, but it could communicate with her.

      My theory about who poisioned the secret service detail was viglance.  They show up just at the right time after the poisioning.  And control isn't deploying a plan after the poisioning. I think control was off guard for this thinking that shaw did it.  It seemed that control didn't have a plan at all expect try and get info from him in the hospital.  And vigilance giving a interigation during the MRI was interesting.  They don't seem to give up either so they will be back to get him.  My bet is that rodey the one he gave the drives to is that old guy from decima.

      My thoughts are that samaritan drives turned into decima technologies.  They seemed to know alot of things.  It seems to handy that they have all the info like the machine, but no AI to put all the pieces together. 

      Its kind of interesting that control couldn't find the machine if it is in one spot all together. When they built the first installation it needed enough power for 50,000 homes.  Thats alot of power.  You mean they couldn't look at the utility companys accross the country and say oh theres a big spike there in usage vs last month.  Not like thay many people migrate to a different area that quickly.  Maybe the machine is broken up into different cells to be less obvious of its location.

      If the two machines ever do communicate with each other I'm betting that the machine takes over samaritan giving it AI while taking over its knowledge resources becoming a larger machine.

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    • Root is in a Faraday cage, so nothing electronic is getting in to her.  That doesn't rule out other means of communication, but what is hard to say.  Analog seems to be the clue. 

      It struck me as quite obvious that it was Vigilance that poisoned the Secret Service detail so they could get to Arthur -- until the end, that is.  Then I began to wonder if Control set it all up to draw Vigilance out while getting Arthur away from the detail.  It all depends upon how rogue she is, and how much the NSA knows about what she's doing.  

      The rest of the pieces don't fit yet, and I'm not convinced Decima is even part of the story any longer.  

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    • There is a very simple explanation for Root's ability to communicate with The Machine (Please read latest theories post [when I post it]). Hmm, Vigilance or Control... who knows, either way his detail bit the dust, hard. Also, I don't think Control answers to the NSA per se.

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    • These people who answer to Control remind me a bit of something like SPECTRE, the old alliance of baddie in the Bond movies.  (For the young 'uns among us, see: Connery, Sean as Bond, James in Thunderball.)  I wonder if this isn't a group of conservative functionaries from various governmental agencies who have built an anti-terrorist league of their own, and commissioned the Machine under the color of the U.S. government.   Either that, or activities that were perfectly acceptable in the days of Bush (and god knows our civil rights were trampled into the dust in them thar days) were decommissioned with the arrival of the Obama-era, leading them to form an alliance to keep Northern Lights alive. 

      It explains their need to kill everyone outside their cabal who knows about the Machine.  And why else would someone from the Office of Special Counsel, of all things, be so prominent?  What is their brief?  Protect federal employees and whistle blowers.  That's about as far from anti-terrorist activity as you can get.  

      Now, what's Control's governmental job?  That's the next big question.  She's not high enough profile that any of the team recognized her.  

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    • Morse code blunder (repost from another discussion) in episode 311

      Tis a shame that Morse code wasn't used correctly.  -.. .- -.. (dah di dit, di dah, dah di dit) spells DAD.  The young Finch programs his memory machine with D T T I.  The programmed machine sends back D E T I.  I was willing to allow for poorly sent code, but even sent poorly this was a horrible example of how to send DAD using Morse.


      A & D use the same characters in American, Continental & International Morse code <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse_code>.


      This is such a tech savvy show.  I would've hoped that the show could at least get Morse code right.  I learned Morse code (CW) with the U.S. Coast Guard.  I continue to use it as an Amateur (Ham) Radio Operator.  I've been fluent with Morse for over 25 years.  So, this isn't something that I just "Wiki'd" to make a point.  I'm sure there were other Morse code users that cringed when they saw this portion of the show.


      This FUBAR won't make me stop watching the show.  I just wanted to make a point.

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    • I didn't sound that way to me.  The machine Harold built was pretty primitive; I'd allow for it not to be as precise as better quality equipment.  

      (BTW, I've removed your duplicate thread; there's no need to post here and create a new thread with the same post.  The best place to post on this episode is here, so I've removed the second one to keep the clutter down.)

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    • LeverageGuru
      LeverageGuru removed this reply because:
      Rvv
      02:25, December 22, 2013
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    • Given the holiday season.  Can you imagine young Harold writing to Santa asking for parts to build a machine to help his father?  And that he "hacked" Santa's naughty/nice list and put his name on the list?  What do you all think of that?

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    • LeverageGuru wrote:
      These people who answer to Control remind me a bit of something like SPECTRE, the old alliance of baddie in the Bond movies.  (For the young 'uns among us, see: Connery, Sean as Bond, James in Thunderball.)  I wonder if this isn't a group of conservative functionaries from various governmental agencies who have built an anti-terrorist league of their own, and commissioned the Machine under the color of the U.S. government.   Either that, or activities that were perfectly acceptable in the days of Bush (and god knows our civil rights were trampled into the dust in them thar days) were decommissioned with the arrival of the Obama-era, leading them to form an alliance to keep Northern Lights alive. 

      It explains their need to kill everyone outside their cabal who knows about the Machine.  And why else would someone from the Office of Special Counsel, of all things, be so prominent?  What is their brief?  Protect federal employees and whistle blowers.  That's about as far from anti-terrorist activity as you can get.  

      Now, what's Control's governmental job?  That's the next big question.  She's not high enough profile that any of the team recognized her.  

      If we are going that route?  Would it be more appropriate to compare "Colossus: The Forbin Project" movie.  It tells a story where two systems have been built by two (two men) countries, and both with similar capabilities (U.S. ->Colossus, and U.S.S.R. Russia ->Guardian).  Both commuinicated with each other and over the course of a short time, they both agreed and become one macihne.


      Would this comparison of that age be more appropriate for this depiction of this episode?  Samariitan and the Machine.  Both have similar function, and both (presumably) are online and operational.  Imagine if they communicated, and both agree bout their primary function?

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    • 112.203.41.100 wrote:
      I might agree with that Decima is Samaritan but still speculation still exists that Samaritan is a program and Decima is an Organization. Next, Control, that sly woman.... I knew from the start of the show that this woman can't be trusted. Vigilance also was in shock when someone intervene again but not just 1 team but 3. (Secret Service which was neutralized by Control; Team PoI (Finch and Shaw), and Control itself.) Predicting a 70% chance of systems clash between Finch's Machine and Samaritan. What will Root do to defend Finch's Machine. As for Reese, do whatever he like.

      I have a differient theory. Decima means destiny (or controler of destiny, fate) from Roman mythology.  My theory is that "Control" (alias) is the head of Decima technologies (Similar to Quinn of HR).  Or she could be a high ranking person that is working at a branch of the government but stilll works for Decima.  If you think about it, She states (or implies) that both machines were spear-headed by her.  She may be one of the "seven" (minus Harold) that knows about "Northern Lights".


      Decima seemed to know about the laptop that Harold placed.  Like Harold that determined only the name from the virus in the episode "Trojan Horse".  it the same way Greer only determined only the name that started it all (the laptop package).


      Would you consider the plausiability of this theory?  If Control is afiliated with Decima, then the Decima story has another tale to tell.


      In addtion, to ponder this.  How is Control a threat to the machine?  Is she trying to control the machine?  Change it to "serve" their own agenda?  In effect, "killing" the original Machine as it is intended by ADMIN.

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    • 74.108.86.237 wrote:
      LeverageGuru wrote:
      These people who answer to Control remind me a bit of something like SPECTRE, the old alliance of baddie in the Bond movies.  
      If we are going that route?  Would it be more appropriate to compare "Colossus: The Forbin Project" movie. Would this comparison of that age be more appropriate for this depiction of this episode?  Samariitan and the Machine.  Both have similar function, and both (presumably) are online and operational.  Imagine if they communicated, and both agree bout their primary function?

      I haven't seen the film, so I couldn't comment on the comparison.  I'm not talking about the Machine.  I'm referring to Control and he rminions, so both potentially apply. 

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    • 74.108.86.237 wrote:

      I have a differient theory. Decima means destiny (or controler of destiny, fate) from Roman mythology.  My theory is that "Control" (alias) is the head of Decima technologies (Similar to Quinn of HR).  Or she could be a high ranking person that is working at a branch of the government but stilll works for Decima.  If you think about it, She states (or implies) that both machines were spear-headed by her.  She may be one of the "seven" (minus Harold) that knows about "Northern Lights".


      Decima seemed to know about the laptop that Harold placed.  Like Harold that determined only the name from the virus in the episode "Trojan Horse".  it the same way Greer only determined only the name that started it all (the laptop package).


      Would you consider the plausiability of this theory?  If Control is afiliated with Decima, then the Decima story has another tale to tell.


      In addtion, to ponder this.  How is Control a threat to the machine?  Is she trying to control the machine?  Change it to "serve" their own agenda?  In effect, "killing" the original Machine as it is intended by ADMIN.

        

      Control and Decima Technologies has 2 different agenda for me. Remember in God Mode, Decima Technologies want to control The Machine for Information Control as for Control want to control both Samaritan and The Machine for Power (Primary) (But Control TRUE objectives remain unknown).


      Answering your question on "How is Control a threat to the machine?", The Red Box is defined as "Assigned to a perceived threat to the Machine or one of its administrators." (The Machine). Control has a high probability to kill Finch thus placed her in a red box.

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    • I have the feeling that we may not see the reappearance of Decima. They were manipulated by Finch in order to introduce the virus into the system which allowed the machine to free itself.  

      Greer is a survivor and we may see him again, but I think Decima died with the disappearance of the Machine from Hanford. Their sole objective was to take control of the machine but I think their whole plan was manipulated from the start by Finch who, as a chess master, was always a couple moves ahead. 

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    • Merry Christmas everybody!

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    • Loved the episode. Had a laugh when I saw that PRISM was a decoy for something much larger. And I guess Finch finally understands what Root's been talking about, the 'larger problem'. Can't wait for the next episode!

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    • Does anyone know why Control and her helpers have red boxes around them whilst Hersh has a yellow box? Does Control not know about the machine, or is Hersh not a threat?

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    • They represent an immediate threat to the Machine, so its given them red boxes.  The red and red-and-white boxes are used when an immediate threat is detected.  Once the Machine no longer peceives her as a threat, her yellow box will return.  Apparently, the Machine doesn't peceive Hersh as a threat, at least not yet.  

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    • Well, I've loved this series thus far, and I'm perfectly willing to suspend logical disbelief to a certain extent, but this episode just left me reeling with it's stupid plot holes.   I mean, please forgive me for saying so...but there were many, and they were, in fact, SO many that I had to come find a place to rant about them!  

      FIrstly, Fusco and Reese are in lockup in Colorado....and Fusco sez, "Finch is probably in trouble right now...." which in fact, he is....he and Arthur are already in the vault in the NY bank.... but just a few scenes later, Reese and Fusco show up?   From a podunk down in the mountains of Colorado to NYC just like that?  

      Secondly....we are told, and shown, that the Bank official got into the Safe Deposit Box and switched the drives, before anyone arrived.....um....how??   And how did she know what the originals looked like??   A bank does not have the ability to get into someones SDB without the other key....

      Thirdly, we come back to Root, in the cage with Control, after Root has regained control of the situation....and she sez, "Your guards were no match for her...." and we see them crumpled in heaps on the floor....   UM..... how?   If I'm not mistaken, the machine needs people to be "her" hands and feet?   So...what, did Root get out of the cage, take care of them all somehow, and then go back in??  

      I love to suspend disbelief as much as the next guy...but this episode was just over the top lazy and the writers seemed to just be pulling mircacles from their butts or something....

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    • I'm sorry, my last post was meant forthe second half of the story arc....3/12 "Aletheia"....oops.   Doesn't seem to be a way to delete or move it.   Just needed a rant anyway.  

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    • A FANDOM user
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