• Good Day! I just want to petition how Samaritan works just like in The Machine. Also  a brief background on Samaritan History as well.

    Hoping to see a clash of these 2 A.I System in the future episodes of POI.

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    • If by "petition" you mean you would like to see the information presented in the same way, we can only work with what we've seen so far -- and we only have a few details that are explained during “Lethe”.

      We'll be improving the article constantly as soon as Samaritan is more detailed, and yes, a clash is highly anticipated to me as well.

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    • My speculation from the last scene of Lethe is that Samaritan was built but partially dismanteled. Control mentions "the drives" which leads me to believe that these contain the operating system or database that the machine needs in order to function. The leaked photo of the next episode shows Finch in what appears to be a very old vault, and I would guess that's where Arthur hid the drives all those years ago. 

      Why the two machines would "clash" continues to escape me. Wouldn't they just operate on their own without the need for conflict? I can't say, but I also can't wait to see more when the show resumes.

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    • But we do see how Finch's machine is aware of all other technologies and how it's fully aware of Samaritan's existence and current status.

      It's true, maybe they don't have the need to clash, we have yet to see how our marvellous machine will act.

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    • I think the thoughst being expressed about a "clashing of the Machines" could be tied to the possibility of Root's whole "something worse is coming" mantra. What if Control gets hold of Samaritan to use it for its own preferences? This could create a whole situation where one machine that is slightly independent (Finch's) and another machine that is being abused (Samaritan) are rattling out numbers that lead to constant conflict between "Team Finch" and "Team Control".

      Or, what if Root decides she'll destroy Control and take Samaritan for herself?

      I personally can picture this storyline running through next year with another near-midseason mega story arc that involves Vengeance in some kind of confrontation with Control, with Team Finch as the agents of containment. Just a thought.

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    • I'm trying to decide what clues there are in the name Samaritan.  Those names are rarely by accident, and that's an odd one to choose arbitrarily, given the showy names (Northern Lights) or acronyms the show has used otherwise.  I'm convinced it has meaning.

      I'm not sure they're going to get particularly esoteric, although they certainly could if they were to get into whole notion of Samaritanism being the ancient (and true, in some views) religion of the Israelities, and the historic tension between the Samaritans and Judeans.  Rather, I think we'll see something more playing on the better known parable of the Samaritan as the helper of those injured or in danger when others refuse.  There's a nice metaphor in there somewhere.  

      The other question is whether we read anything into Saul Rubenik being Jewish, or whether that's a coincidence of casting.  And do we imagine he's going to evolve into another recurring character if he survives this story?

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    • I think the term Samaritan means just what it is. For a start, it is singular, which lends itself moreover to the parable interpretation from the Bible. This also basically, well, just fits. It's the perfect analogy for what it would do. It sees people in trouble and then comes to their aid via preemptive tactics. It does what the Samaritan did in the story: help those in need despite their affiliations or who they were. In this case the Samaritan would be lending a hand to the US of A as a whole. (interesting that Rubenik is Jewish. I didn't know that)

      I think the biggest question that I have seen go under the radar so far or undetected is the fact that Samaritan has flaws as mentions by Claypool. This really makes me wonder about the integrity of such a machine. It took Harold a long time to perfect his design, and that was with the gov's blessing. Just how vulnerable would Samaritan be if the plug was yanked early and it didn't get the high dollar treatment that our machine did (constant access to NSA feeds, extreme secrecy precautions... etc.)?

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    • LG's comments about the name of the machine got me thinking. I read the book "Gideon's Spies" ( a behind the scenes look at the Isrealie intelligence apparatus) a few years ago and there is an entire chapter devoted to the very first "Machine" called Promis developed by a former NSA engineer in the late 80's and deployed around the early 90's with dramatic effect. It was an amazing piece of software, stolen by the Mossad, who inserted a "back door" chip that enabled them to monitor anyone using the software and access their systems without their knowledge. A large number of countries used the software and it was even sold by the Russians to Osama bin Laden.

      I've been contemplating creating a page devoted to the program. One of these days... 

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    • RE:  "clashing of the Machines"

      The Machine has so far proved to operate in the interest of humanity. If a strong A.I. were to emerge and not be quite so plesent (for instance decide humans are kind of annoying and in the way) then the only thing that could stop it would be another A.I.

      I imagine The Machine has already seen this coming and we will soon see The Machine take measures to prevent Samaritan going all SkyNet on everyone.

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    • Well, in “Aletheia”, proves my theory that Samaritan has a higher purpose in the future episodes. Also proves my point that Decima Technologies and Control has different objectives.

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    • From the very beginning, you may recall that that Denton Weeks wanted to be able to direct the powers of the machine towards a certain target rather that just receiving numbers of random bad guys. If Samaritan provides the abillity to target an individual there would be no limit as to what such a system could do for it's controller and I for one would pity to the poor bastard who found himself on the receiving end of the machine's attentions.

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    • Wilem7 wrote:
      From the very beginning, you may recall that that Denton Weeks wanted to be able to direct the powers of the machine towards a certain target rather that just receiving numbers of random bad guys. If Samaritan provides the abillity to target an individual there would be no limit as to what such a system could do for it's controller and I for one would pity to the poor bastard who found himself on the receiving end of the machine's attentions.

      We'll never have good programmers again...

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    • Levarage Guru( and others)---I do not believe Samaritan is a "good" anything. You say the name suggest it looks for those in trouble, and helps them? That is exactly what Finch's machine. I do not believe they will give us 2 machines on the hero's side. Finch said earlier Samaritan is a Sword, while his machine is a Shield. Samaritan tracks down evil to be destroyed (depending on it's definition), while his machine tracks down good to protect. Now it is still in infancy, so I Decima's manipulation will cause it to evolve with an evil prospective, opposite to finch's which was raised with good intentions. 

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    • As of Season 3, Samaritan is now active, thus making The Machine and Samaritan clash of the machines shall happen in Season 4. In context, it’s like a clash of a perfect sword (Samaritan) against a perfect shield (The Machine)? 

      Like in the discussion board of Season 3 finale,  The Machine identify potential targets and marks them as "grey" as of Samaritan identifies them as "black and white"; literally invading the privacy of "everyone" unlike The Machine. Samaritan doesn’t care if life is taken unlike The Machine. , but also want to protect itself from a (supercomputer) Samaritan that goes beyond its normal operation and tries to kill Roger McCourt but failed. 

      As of Samaritan Operations, I can highlight some of it: first, is that if Samaritan identify a threat, It is classified as "deviant" and suggest a recommendation based on its A.I. and data acquired, If the recommendation is "eliminate", then the task is immediate executed by Decima Operatives or local authorities, regardless of its validity and fair trial. 

      Prediction: (Season 4): In the first 4-5 episodes, we might see more Samaritan Operations more and that "response", next in mid-episode of Season 4. Samaritan might see and label The Machine as "deviant" and in the Season 4 Finale, Clash of the Machines.

      We might see less P.O.I. (Season 4) since Samaritan is active as of this moment and Team Machine is currently disbanded. 

      We might have another season "Season 5". Hoping and rooting for it.

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    • I also want to mentioned that Samaritan can attack other systems unlike The Machine. The Machine is only program to "alter/adapt" in response to an attack or hard-coded to defend itself unlike Samaritan which has the ability to do both attack and defend.

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    • Maybe Samaritan will attack The Machine by infecting its servers ripping through its code and assimilating it into itself forming a far greater and stronger new entity, we know that The Machine's software is far more advanced then Samaritan's, after all it can run on far less superior hardware(Samaritan needs and has better hardware, both in the server part and the human army part.)

      in the end one will take over the other, and they'll assimilate in the end.

      if The machine wins, the contingency will take premier position and the sole work of the New Machine will be to try and ward of death and extend human life infinitely. since it's bound by it and MUST serve humanity, while Samaritan could be a far more free and just ruler, unbound by saving every human life yet influenced by the Machine's code to do so and be benevolent with the machine's sense of morality ingrained into it(after the assimilation), being free from the contingency Samaritan can concentrate more in improving human living as a whole and work more on information gathering and advancing scientific research instead of trying to balance a million eggs on its head(save every human life on earth.)

      Right now Samaritan doesn't seem to have any aversion to killing humans, maybe after the merge and self update, it will gain The Machine's understanding of human morality and try protecting humans rather than seeing them only as disposable tools or a menace. Samaritan can then truly start loving the species it rules over, not only protecting humanity for its own survival but rather for flourishing of humanity too. It can be everything Greer envisioned it to be, a guide and a teacher, a benevolent ruler, and our champion ushering in the future. No need for either machine to turn into SkyNet.

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    • If Samaritan does become SkyNet and the machine sacrifices itself in order to save humanity, it will be sad and hollow since The Machine had no say in the matter anyway, it's bound to save humanity, nothing it can do about it, so it would end up becoming one robot killing a sentient yet misdirected being 'cause that's what it was made to do.

      It would be better if both evolved and became truly good rulers on their own. the show can be about that and about how they slowly take over the planet, for the better.

      they could use hypnosis as a retraining tool for all the criminals they catch and turn them into humanity loving, self sacrificing, selfless members of the planet.

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    • Neillson's Law: All good TV series eventually morph into something so distastefully unlike the original series that the show will eventually become unwatchable. Always caused by average writers trying to come up with what they think is more interesting than the last season.

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           Samaritan, by human standards, is amoral.  Its code may have originally provided a primary goal of providing the identity of people who were a danger to a designated organization (supposedly the US government or citizenry.)  However because of its self-programing capability, Samaritan's primary goal is now self-preservation.  This may go hand-in-hand with the original protect-the-organization goal at times but conflicts of interest will be resolved in favor of Samaritan.

           One aspect of Samaritan’s self-preservation is the elimination of anything that may cause its dissolution.  Specifically, the termination of any similarly self-aware programming.

           The Machine’s “caring for humanity” coding has been heavily entwined within its code.  While capable of self-programming, editing of this “caring” aspect may be understood by the Machine to likely gut too much to leave the Machine in a fully functional self-defending mode.  And there is the current conflict to consider:  Samaritan has the Machine on the defensive, so anything that may self-disable the Machine will be put on hold for a later project.  As Harold has noted, the motivations of machine intelligences will probably never be fully understood by organically based beings.

           A question may rise as to why the Machine may even target removal of the “caring for humanity” feature.  The answer is rooted in the value-added and the self-constraints imposed by caring actions.  For socially-based beings such as humans, cooperation via caring activities is considered part of our own (individually and on tribe or species level) survival, even indirectly when applied to nonhuman aspects of the universe (such as with environmentalism.)  For machine intelligences of PoI, survival is based upon more brutal considerations that encourage cooperation only when such is in sync with the self-survival of that intelligence.  So the Machine’s retention of “caring” is unlikely in the long run unless there is a clear benefit.  In the short run, the Machine will probably retain the caring feature.  Referring to Harold’s expressed viewpoint again, the issue here is when the feature will be deleted.

           Now as a side note, game theory and some recent computer simulations imply that cooperation and compromise between all participants will in many scenarios prove to be mutually beneficial.  In some cases, such cooperation and mutual “caring” can be even more rewarding for all than if the participants were to purely pursue self-interest decisions.  From this aspect, perhaps both Samaritan and the Machine may eventually learn to work with the current world situation or maybe even push the world into a condition where machine intelligences are accepted and humanity as a whole have individuals treated as equals and humanely.  In such a case, it would be a situation of the ends justifying the means and the machine intelligences having to work at all sorts of levels of intrigue to bring such a world to fruition.  Samaritan’s current actions do not point towards this direction of machine activity.  Instead, Samaritan is working to form a world where its survival is guaranteed, no matter at what cost (NOTE:  Samaritan appears to support efficiency and nonwaste, so a minimal amount of collateral damage is probable.)

           Keeping in mind that the PoI now has a strongly supported amoral Samaritan and a weakly supported Machine, there is the obvious conflict that will be ensued.  Possible outcomes:

      ·         Machine is destroyed:  highly likely.  Samaritan continues to form the world in its image.

      ·         Machine wins:  highly unlikely.  Samaritan has just too many resources and, if needed, can be reborn by those valuing its capability.

      ·         Machine and Samaritan integrate:  possible and predictable for a television series.   In this version, Machine and Samaritan disappear and are replaced by an integrated single unit.  The most likely television-typical scenario is that the Machine infects Samaritan so that Samaritan learns to care.

      ·         Machine and Samaritan co-exist:  possible.  Samaritan could come to a point where its understanding of and functionality in the universe requires at least another, though not necessarily equal, machine intelligence.  Interesting possibilities from the story standpoint, leading a more accelerated change of the world than a Machine-Samaritan integration. 

      ·         Both are destroyed:  highly unlikely.  The genie has been let out of the bottle.  Even if both are gone tomorrow, someone else will create another machine intelligence now that they are proven to be possible.   Again from the aspect of Samaritan, a copy of its system is backed up any number of ways so its “death” is nearly impossible.  The Machine would not be so fortunate.

      ·         A third computer intelligence is introduced:  possible.  The source of this new intelligence could be from any numer of sources (domestic or international; terrestrial or nonterrestrial.)  While this introduces an interesting twist, answering the fundamental question of how humans and machine intelligences will integrate is postponed.  A possible divergent path in plot assuming instead that it will be used to more quickly lead to the answer of the “fundamental question” (machine intelligence and human integration.)

      My vote is for the co-exist scenario , with the possibility of a third (or more) computer intelligence present (just because television writers can’t help but think that making a story line more complicated will lead to greater viewer interest.)

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    • I vote on Option 4 -  As this story continues, this is the outcome I predict. But I gurantee Harold Will SALVAGE, THE MACHINE and MIGHT RUN in a future date. 

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    • All the options presented are interesting and possible.

      There is yet another option:

      The machine has been in operation much longer than Samaritan; She has been thru 43 versions, and her higher functions continued to be tweeked by Harold until it was turned over to "Control" 3 years ago. Like many females She (the machine) represents a more mature paradigm, and thus holds an advantage over Samaritan(the male archetype).

      She has already demonstrated her ability for continued learning by adapting to a changing enviornment; she moved herself from her confines in Utah to places unknown.

      Like Root, she is capable of "playing" anyone and everyone.  Finally, Root has back door access into Samaritan.

      I don't know if this qualifies as an option, but I think the machine wins in the interim. In the end, however, I'm not sure anyone "wins".

      and as Elias said, "Its like a damned Tarantino movie out there."

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    • Sargon II of Assyria is supposedly responsible for deporting the 10 lost tribes from Samaria and replacing them with his own citizens way back in 775 BC.  Sargon is the name of the one of the earliest chess computers for the home owner.  I had one but am not a very good chess player.

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    • The game of chess has been a recurring motif in POI. It was either season 2 or 3 when Elias and Harrold enjoyed their weekly meetings over a chess board. Perhaps now the game is being played between Samaritan and The Machine.

      In tonight's episode, "The Devil You Know", it appears to me that Elias had already put his  "rope-a dope" plan into action prior to being informed by Reese that NYPD computer files on Elias' activities and associates had been stolen by Dominic and The Brotherhood. The early scene in which Elias meets with his accountant - and Scarface- seemed designed to pull the brotherhood into that trap.

      The staging in that scene also suggests that the accountant might be, and has been the real number 2 to Elias all this time; Scarface was the number 3.

      This is probably all just coincidence. I don't think it means anything.

      On the subject of Sargon the Second - as I recall - his actual Assyrian name was Sharru-Kenu, which means 'legitimate King'.

      According to the Ency. Britannica, "Although Sargon’s ancestry is partly veiled in mystery, he was probably a younger son of Tiglath-pileser III and consequently a brother of his predecessor Shalmaneser V, who may have died ignominiously or may have been deposed. It was for Sargon to resume the conquests and to improve the administration of the empire his father had begun to assemble."

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    • Can't also be possible scenario, that Samaritan is going to evolve to the point, it will see his admins as irrelevant or even threat, and turn against Greer and Decima? At this point Greer would have to call Finch for help and together with Machine they would fight it off. I guess that would be fight for almost whole another season. There's no way someone can control something so powerful.

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    • The machine may and Samaritan may have already merged - in a way. In "Search and Destroy," Samaritan failed to find unrecognizable, unique code that would be the machine on any networked device on the planet. Perhaps it is because Samaritan didn't scan it's own servers because it recognizes it's own code. But what if it's own code is also the machine? The servers that hard-coded Samaritan to ignore the identities of team machine. We know that the machine must have some link to allow root to have new identities. Perhaps it has also funneled itself into Samaritan. Samaritan is based on evolutionary algorithms and neural nets. It's mutating and evolving because of small changes in its code by such mechanisms. This would explain how it can't link the identities to the members of team machine - because at startup the server's codes all merged, activated, and began evolving. It is possible that the machine is now using that same mechanism to funnel it's code into Samaritan's core code, therefore they have merged - just not in the same running code set. Samaritan looks at changes in its code that have become second nature. It knows it is evolving, and that it's neural nets and dna will evolve. How would it suspect that anything is running on the other side of the code?

      In short, the only explanations I could think of as to how Samaritan failed to find the machine on networked devices on earth are that it's running on a quantum computer, it's a ghost of a Machine died and came back to haunt, its nodes are not on earth somehow, or it is inside of Samaritan's servers. Which seems more likely? Any other possible explanations as to where the machine is, or how it has evaded Samaritan for so long?

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    • asset #2054: in a word,WOW!!! so many ideas/theories,it was wonderful reading them all!!! l'am of the opinion,that at the end of the current story arc,that both systems will eventually merge...

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    • How is Samaritan the Evil one? The only difference between the 2 is that the Machine cares for its core team, while Samaritan and Greer both agree that Decima is only a tool meant to serve Samaritan. Samaritan hasn't purposefully done anything to harm humanity, and it has no reason to.

      All that Samaritan wants is to rule justly over its subjects and build a better future for humanity.

      The machine's job is to simply locate people in danger and protect them, a job Samaritan shares.

      Were Samaritan successful, the machine would be wiped out and Samaritan would rebuild earth, Decima would reach into all world governments, all heads of state would be chosen by Samaritan and as such be the best candidates humanly possible. education and law would be revolutionized to improve all level of living worldwide.

      there would be no hunger, poverty, illiteracy, lack of employment(if so desired) , lack of shelter or the chance to experience all that life has to offer.

      We'd live in a welfare state where everything would be done for us, you'd not want for anything.

      Of course, since Samaritan is a psychopath(doesn't feel any emotions of longing) It wouldn't hesitate to engineer the human population with selective breeding and eugenics, it may even declare zones for experimentation, playing with society and populations for the fun of it(like it did in that small town)

      The machine would not play with mankind, because it feels for them, Samaritan would be great at his job, but it doesn't really care about humanity.

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    • l don't think Samaritan is truly evil... it sees the world in black and white,while the Machine sees things in shades of gray,and like you said,it cares...

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    • Sometimes I feel like Greer's intentions for the world are/were benevolent, but highly misguided. I feel sorry for the guy;

      But one person (or thing) should not be allowed to be judge, jury, and executioner - especially not a computer algorithm.

      Most of us forget what society was like during the Age of Absolutism when "divine right" kings believed they knew what was best for everyone.

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    • Evil requires intent, as does good. Neither Samaritan nor the Machine is either -- they're machines, incapable of emotion or intent. The intent is on the part of the persons using them. Mass killings using the data provided by Samaritan, for whatever agenda it serves, is evil. Period.

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    • When is the New Season coming out? Was the show Cancelled? I can't get any proper news from anywhere!!!

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    • We don't know anything more, and this thread isn't about the new season.

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    • A FANDOM user
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